As has been made clear from recent posts to my blog, I far prefer Google+ to Facebook. For a while I used both but found juggling two social networking websites to be tedious and distracting so now my online social networking focuses primarily on G+. Many of my FB "friends" (both real friends and online contacts who are categorised as such by FB) have not made the transition, and a number of them cite their establishment on Facebook as the main reason. They already have Google accounts which they use for Google services: Gmail, Blogger, and Youtube, among others. Yet Facebook is where their groups are, where they chat, where most of their friends are. They have an attachment because of that so will not transfer to Google+ even though some of them like it.Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.- Matthew 7:13-14
My intention here is not to speak about social networking websites. However, the aforementioned situation has got me to thinking about faith in God and our ecclesial affiliations. Of course, the two are not directly analogous - the salvation of one's soul is not comparable to preference of one form of electronic communication over another, particularly when the matter of electronic communicaton is really of little significance in the grand scheme of things - yet I do wonder how often our attitude of preferring comfort and familiarity over what we know to be better is transferred to matters of principle, conscience, and even our eternal salvation.
This is not intended as a condemnatory post but it will perhaps be a somewhat forthright one. It stems from my own musings in recent weeks due to certain internal questionings of my own, and if there is any sense of condemnation it applies to me first. Please bear with me.
I first became aware of this in myself when I began hearing a call to Orthodoxy. As an Anglican, I had grown up being taught the branch theory of Christian ecclesiology - a theory that teaches that different ecclesial groups holding to varying and even contradictory doctrines and which are out of communion with each other, nonetheless constitute various "branches" of the Church of Christ, provided that they retain certain common factors, (the list of which varies from one adherent of this branch theory to the next). I had also been taught that the Church of Rome was the continuation of the original Church, from which the Orthodox and later, the Anglicans had separated. As I began to look at history and read of the changes in doctrine, I came to realise that, contrary to what I had previously understood, it was Rome that had separated from the Orthodox Church, itself the original Church of the Apostles. However, since I had no reason to doubt the branch theory, this was of little consequence. It was only in 2004, when I began to explore ecclesiology in light of accusations thrown to and fro between the warring factions of Anglo-Catholicism, that I slowly began to understand the nature of communion, of what it is to be in communion and therefore the Church, and the true implications of heresy and schism.
After that, I continued to read and discuss Orthodox theology, to pray Orthodox prayers, and occasionally go to Orthodox services. Yet it was nearly a year later that I eventually asked for baptism, and only because an agnostic with a Lutheran background and Roman Catholic leanings told me that he had got fed up of me talking about becoming Orthodox and wished that I would just get on and do it. Why? Why did I take so long? Why, having arrived at the realisation that I was unbaptised and outside the Church, and that I had never received the sacraments, did I wait for nearly a year to do anything about it?
Well, I can tell you why. I had become a slave to officialdom, comfort, and establishment, and this culture was far more deeply entrenched and much more difficult to shake off than any doctrinal belief that contradicted Apostolic Christianity. I was in the Church of England. I belonged to the state church, it was known to even those who had no care for religion, and there was a certain respectability that went along with it. It was also easy: there was a parish church every couple of miles, clergy were generally readily available (at least in suburban areas such as where I lived), and a church building with all of the infrastructure of parish life in situ was more or less guaranteed, (certainly a parish without a building was the exception). I knew people in various parishes - particularly on the Anglo-Catholic circuit - and they knew me, and I had even been on the official path to exploring ordination, known to various priests and bishops.
By contrast, Orthodox parishes were few and far between, difficult to get to, and many worshipped in private homes or borrowed buildings, often having to set up the church and take it all down again Sunday by Sunday. They were not very well established, clergy were rare, services were not always weekly and I didn't really understand them anyway, and being part of those parishes meant working for the things that could be so easily taken for granted in my then current home. Then there was the fact that nobody really seemed to know what the Orthodox Church was. Many had never heard of it, thinking it to be Jewish or something else that wasn't Christian. Those who had heard of it ignorantly thought it was only for Russians and Greeks, and that there was no place for a Briton in Orthodoxy. To top it all off, I would go from being well known and liked to being nobody. Nobody in the Orthodox Church had any idea who Michael Astley was. Although I knew that Orthodoxy was true, I used all of these things as excuses for staying away from Christ, deciding to live as best I could in an Orthodox way within a structure that I did not believe to be the Church - something I knew from the start to be disingenuous.
Sunday by Sunday, I would go to the mass, knowing in my heart that it was no Mass. I would decline to receive the eucharistic bread and wine, questioning in my heart what it was and what I was doing there. My lapsed Lutheran online acquaintance came along just at the right time, and I was made a catechumen in September of 2005 (on the feast of the miracle of the Holy Archangel Michael at Colossae), and baptised into the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church on the Sunday of the Prodigal Son the following year. It was a time of great excitement and radiant spiritual joy. Now my life in Christ has settled into something more normal: it has its ups and downs, and I struggle along, as do we all. Sometimes, that excitement comes back to me, particularly when some quotation from a Saint or some interaction with another person shows something to me of the love of Christ, and mostly, when I am present at the Divine Liturgy.
Now, people come to me. They say things to me about their own explorations of Orthodoxy and other confessions, and I sometimes see in them what I recognise in myself from 2004/2005. As I listen to what they say, it becomes clear that they know in their hearts where they need to be but they have become slaves to comfort, familiarity, and establishment, placing these things above that still, small voice that calls them into the saving bosom of the Church. So some Anglicans tell me about their disappointment with the current state of affairs in the Church of England, while others do not care so much because they have come to realise that the bigger issue is schism, and that this is no basis for the Christian life, whatever the branch theorists may have told them in their childhood. They may go to Orthodox pilgrimages or occasional vigil services, develop a small collection of Orthodox books, and even buy prayer ropes and say the Jesus prayer, all the while, going to their Anglican churches week by week and crying in their pews or at the communion rail, either out of upset or frustration. Some of them, having left behind the branch theory but having embraced some sort of "two lungs" understanding, have reached a point of action, and decided to leave. Yet, not having been properly grounded in scriptural, patristic, and ecumenical (in its true sense) ecclesiology, they cling to this common Anglo-Catholic hankering after Rome. Therefore, presented with the choice between the largely unknown saving Church of Christ whose local manifestation has all of the practical difficulties mentioned two paragraphs back, and an heretical pseudo-church which has buildings, a prolific pope, established infrastructure and parish life, and organisational cohesion, a familiar worship style, not to mention (perhaps most importantly of all) respectability in the Anglo-Catholic circles in which they have moved for their whole lives, they choose the latter and become Roman Catholics. They may have fulfilled the Anglo-Catholic dream but it is at the expense of truth, and they find themselves as much outside the Church as they were before, having endured that upheaval for the sake of respectability - a quality that may win them admiration in some earthly quarters but which does not impart that divine grace which brings salvation.
For what profit is it to a man if he gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of Man will come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.- Matthew 16:26-27
The list of new-martyrs (those who died at the hands of persecuting civil authorities) in the Church calendar is astounding. These are those who were given the option to forsake Christ and lead a calm and quiet life of social acceptance and respectability, but who defied what was affirmed by the majority as normal, choosing instead to take up the Cross of Christ, facing persecution, torture, and death, and ultimately achieving union with the Holy and Undivided Trinity through the uncreated and life-giving grace of God. I do not think that I go too far in saying that, when we claim with our lips to profess Christ but in our actions choose the easy option of social comfort and personal familiarity at the expense of what is true and holy, (and most of us have done it at one time or another), we betray the blood of those martyrs and may as well spit on their relics. This is no small matter.
Aside from the aforementioned enquirers, there are others who, Anglican or otherwise, seem to love Orthodoxy but remain outside the Orthodox Church, hiding a selection of the above excuses behind a veil of not yet having reached a point of personal agreement with every single doctrinal point, (taking an individualistic approach to communal faith). Others may be gay or otherwise unmarried and involved in active sexual relationships, and use integrity as an excuse for staying outside the Church: "I love the Orthodox Church but I cannot profess all of that knowing that part of my life contradicts it". Or indeed there may be a host of reasons why people who might otherwise be Orthodox give for not taking that final step.I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of my mouth. Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked—I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on my throne, as I also overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the Churches.- Revelation 3:15-22
Well, so what? I didn't agree with everything the Orthodox Church teaches when I became Orthodox. As an Anglican, in all of the arguments about human sexuality and the ordination of women, I fell on the liberal side of the debate. On matters of Scripture, I would have laughed at anybody who told me that Moses wrote all of the Pentateuch (especially those bits that recount events that took place after his death) or that Adam and Eve were historical people. Yet, that wasn't really the point. The Orthodox Church was the Church and I had to be part of it. I had to be baptised, dying to my old self and rising from the font a new creature, grafted into the Body of Christ. Academic understandings could be sorted out later, from my vantage point of being within the Church, surrounded by the light of its Mysteries and its Tradition, rather than fumbling in the dark outside. Even today, I cannot say that I am 100% at peace with Orthodox understanding of all of these or other matters, but that's ok. I have left behind my past home where some of these things were at the heart of arguments and where anybody who didn't have a definitively worked-out position was branded an unthinking sheep. I am not a Protestant: my understanding of Truth does not depend solely on my own reasoning, and I can afford to simply be obedient to the Church's teaching, deepening my grasp of it through study and prayer, in my own time, and without external pressure to always have answers.
After all, we all suffer the effects of the Fall in one form or another. The Church is a spiritual hospital, where we seek to overcome these effects at the hands of experienced physicians, who prescribe the appropriate spiritual medicine for us, over time, that we may grow into health and fullness of life in Christ. To cite temptation to sin and prideful disagreement with Church doctrine as reasons not to enter the Church is like citing sickness as a reason not to go to hospital. Yet who has ever heard of a hospital that insists that people must stand outside and get better before they can be admitted as patients? The Orthodox Church is not made up solely of Saints. We are called to be holy but it is only through life in Christ's Church that we are made so.
We are all sinners when we start off, and I know that I have remained so but I'm not about to walk away for that reason, however uncomfortable the struggle may seem at times, and to anybody who has spent some time teetering on the edge of Orthodoxy but hasn't made the leap, and who has survived reading this far without becoming bored or too affronted to continue, I urge you to consider the reasons for your own inertia and ask yourself whether they justify your continued separation. Do not answer here - nobody is accountable to me. Rather, when you are in your own company - not in the midst of a conversation with anybody about matters of faith or anything else, but when you are alone - in the stillness of your own private thoughts, ask yourself that question, examine your heart, and answer yourself honestly. For some, I know that it is not so easy. For many, it is not simply a matter of comfort, as housing and income may be linked to one's ecclesial affiliation and this presents problems, but for most people this is not the case, and you know what you need to do.'Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. But go and learn what this means: "I desire mercy and not sacrifice." For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.'- Jesus Christ (Matthew 9:13b)
We are called to be martyrs in this world, to deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow Christ. Sometimes that means losing our current social circles, losing our reputation and status, having to learn an unfamiliar rite, worshipping God according to a calendar that is not in step with that followed by the world, and doing a whole host of other things that make life just that little bit less comfortable, that make us appear strange, and that cause the world and even those in our past homes to laugh at us or reject us, but it has ever been thus, and if we do take up the Cross of Christ, what we will find is that the rewards, even in this life, make it truly worthwhile.
Status, knowledge, reputation, physical comfort: these worldly things are fleeting. Monastics leave behind their friends and family, avoid weddings and even sometimes their own families' funerals, shed their surnames with the status and heritage that it entails, and focus purely on their salvation. We in the world may not always live up to that full angelic ideal but we must always bear in mind the ultimate purpose of our life, and not withdraw from it or make do with something less for reasons that have nothing to do with God, grace, and salvation.
'We see the water of a river flowing uninterruptedly and passing away, and all that floats on its surface - rubbish or beams of trees - all passes by. Christian! So it is with our life... I was an infant, and that time has gone. I was an adolescent, and that too has passed. I was a young man, and that is also far behind me. The strong and mature man that I was is no more. My hair turns white, I succumb to age, but that too passes away; I approach the end and will go the way of all flesh. I was born in order to die. I die that I may live. Remember me, O Lord, in thy Kingdom!'- St Tikhon of Voronezh




22 responses:
Good post. I can't agree though with labeling the Latin Church "pseudo" (even as an Orthodox). I just don't see God abandoning the West after 1054 and there has been too much sanctity in the Latin Church in the intervening centuries
But I hear what you are saying and I didn't stop reading through abhorrence ;)
Peace,
Brian
Michael, thank you for this prophetic posting, in which I can recognise a great deal.
For some of us (really, I am only speaking for myself, and do not wish to give offence to anyone else), there is, mixed in with all the other spiritual, intellectual and ecclesial elements, a romantic attraction to Orthodoxy precisely because it is counter-cultural, with the risk of losing familiarity, "status" and the cultural elements in our current situation that we particularly love. I think this romantic attraction is a danger, if it sways our judgement
It seems to me to need a great deal of discernment to separate out the romantic attractions of "sacrifice" from the other, better more dispassionate reasons for swimming the Bosphorus.
I'm not really sure whether it's helpful for me to comment on this or not. For the benefit of anyone reading who doesn't know, I'm a Methodist presbyter. I am aware that I am following a forthright post and so some of this is also perhaps more forthright than I might otherwise be.
There is a great deal in Orthodoxy that I deeply admire. There is a great deal that I think we could do to emulate. At the World Methodist Council a few weeks ago, we received an invitation to enter into a dialogue with the Ecumenical Patriarchate, which we were very pleased to accept. I am very excited about that dialogue and look forward to it taking its place alongside our dialogues with other traditions. For me, these dialogues offer us an opportunity to recover things which we have lost. Wesley was very well-read in the Church Fathers and influenced by the Orthodox tradition, an emphasis we have since (completely) lost. It would be wonderful if we could relearn some of that.
However, at the end of the day, the issue for me will always come to ecclesiology. Methodists do theology in conversation with their experience: in other words, how we speak of faith, of God and of his Church needs to be grounded in the realities of our lived discipleship. It is there that I would want to agree with Brian's point about sanctity in the Catholic Church and I would want to extend his point to other traditions. From a Methodist (and probably many if not all other Christian traditions), holiness can come only from God. Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est, if you'll pardon the Latin :) Further, I think we see the evidence of God's work through this. God is, of course, everywhere and fills all things. All of that begs the question, of what is the relation of that to the Church.
Various possibilities then arise. The ecclesiology of the invisible Church. Variations on branch theory. The Catholic "degrees of communion" approach. One true church but God's grace can be known extensively outside it (which I'm afraid leaves me wondering why you then need a church at all...). At the moment the one that really makes the most sense to me is some notion of degrees of communion and that we seek a deeper communion with one another as followers of Christ (and with the church of every age) as we seek a deeper communion with God and a deeper sharing in the divine life.
Perhaps if there really were one tradition which had never known division or schism things might look different, but Catholics and Orthodox have known such things just as other Christian traditions have. That you can conveniently say that the groups that breakaway stop being part of the church so the church herself remains perfectly united doesn't really change the reality of what happens on the ground. It seems to require quite a lot of effort to know which Orthodox groups are in communion with which others at any given point. So while I am profoundly convinced that there is a great deal that Orthodoxy can teach us, and while I long for a deeper communion and fellowship with churches of the Orthodox tradition, I am far from convinced that Orthodoxy is the only expression of Christ's Church.
...but then, I have facebook, and Google plus and twitter and I gain different things from each one and will probably continue to run them in parallel! :)
Thank you, all, for your repsonses thus far. I do have thoughts to share in response to all of you and hope to do so when there is more time.
I think there's a lot in what you say, Michael and certainly food for thought in my case as I've trod the verge of the Bosphorus for a good while. I've never been Anglo-Catholic but I do wonder whether your account gives due weight to the place of Rome in the overall scheme of things? I tend to take the Orthodox side when it comes to looking at the Great Schism of 1054AD - partly out of undoubted Protestant prejudice against the Papacy and partly because I think the Orthodox have a good point about the 'filioque clause'.
There are also some puzzling issues that you raise. Am I to take it that the Orthodox teach that Moses wrote the whole Pentateuch? That's not my understanding but Orthodox people can correct me if I'm wrong. Also, when I look over the Bosphorus I'm afraid I see just as much fundamentalism, obscurantism and all manner of other dodgy things as I see on this side - as well as much real beauty, holiness and grace. But then, that's not in short supply over on this side either - even if you might have to look around a bit to find it. Perhaps I'm just too 'Protestant' in my thinking still and find the whole thing rather too binary - either/or rather than both/and.
But I'm still exploring.
Here we go. :-)
Thanks for your comment, Phil. I'm not sure I am unfairly diminishing Rome in this context. Certainly, on the world stage, it is perhaps the most influential due to its history, size, and so forth, but as far as the particular concern of this blog post goes, all of that is really of little consequence. I am seeking here only to get those who have been hmmming and ahhhing for some time about Orthodoxy to seek again the momentum that started them off in the first place and that may have waned or perhaps been redirected. That is why I thought it important in this particular context to be uncompromising in expressing just what that place of redirection is. Of course, I would modify the forcefulness and wording according to context. I can be polite when the situation calls for it. :-)
I was going to work from the bottom up but, seeing as this touches on Brian's point (Hello, Brian), I shall respond to that here by saying that I, too, could not imagine God abandoning any part of this earth. I suppose for me, non-recognition of a breakaway group as part of the Church does not necessarily equate to abandonment by God. I think that my view of a few years ago has been tempered somewhat, and moulded by others of traditional Orthodox ecclesiological mindset. I still have no time for the idea that we know where the Church is but we do not know where it is not. I think that this is demonstrably a contradiction of our ecclesiology. However, I think that Innocent (Dr Clark) Carlton has a helpful view on this. His interpretation of "Outside the Church there is no salvation" is that it is really saying that within the Church is to be found the way of salvation: its Holy Tradition. Where sufficient elements of that Tradition continue outside the Church, (and I don't think any of us could disagree that they are to be found to a greater or lesser extent elsewhere), exposure to those elements, though clouded by extraneous teachings and practices, may provide something of a foundation for people in those churches to still find a means of furthering their theosis. My own view stops simply at our having had the New Covenant revealed to us and that we human beings have no authority, knowledge, or place to state either way whether those outside of that which has been revealed to us become deified. I have never been personally presented with a reason to delve beyond that. However, of those who have taken it one step further in terms of formulating a concept of what may happen in those circumstances, Innocent Carlton's view is the one that I find I can affirm genuinely, from the heart.
cont'd below
Back to Phil, then...
A mutual acquaintance of ours (an Orthodox priest) recently told me that, whatever we find wrong in non-Orthodox churches, we must always affirm that which we find to be good, and on the basic level, I agree with and affirm this. I know that there is much good that I see elsewhere, the absence of which I lament in Orthodoxy sometimes. Anglo-Catholics often have a care and dignity in worship that could well be embraced by many Orthodox churches, Methodists have a true sense of corporate worship and sing from the heart while many Orthodox parishes don't really encourage the lay people in understanding their part in the communal offering of worship, Evangelicals often have a missionary zeal that puts many Orthodox to shame (myself included). Yet in affirming what is good, I think we need also to keep a balance.
You see, I am familiar with Anglo-Catholic culture from the inside, and the way that it embeds itself into one's way of thinking (as should any church's culture, I suppose). Anglo-Catholics in England (unlike in the West Indies, where I grew up) have always been a minority within their church, and often a scorned one at that. This has often led to a persecuted mindset and one that seeks (sometimes desperately) external affirmation - usually from Rome or Orthodoxy - as legitimising the existence of the movement, perhaps stemming from the branch theory. I will never forget a thread on a forum to which we both belong, where we were discussing the series by Peter Owen Jones where he spent some time with an anchorite of the Coptic church in Egypt. The monk had addressed him as Father Peter - something I do often out of courtesy, and without a second thought - and some of the Anglo-Catholics on the thread were peeing their knickers out of sheer glee and excitement because of what they interpreted as a recognition of Anglican orders by the Coptic church - and all from a small act of politeness that wasn't intended as a statement of doctrine. That is why I think that this affirmation by Orthodox of what is good elsewhere can potentially have the harmful effect of making people believe that we think they are fine as they are if it is not tempered with a "but". Other people from other forms of Christianity will obviously think differently from Anglo-Catholics where they are more confident in their own traditions (I will come to you, Mark) and this may not be necessary for them, but I know that Anglo-Catholics' existence, beliefs, and practices have never been mainstream Church of England, both experientially and canonically, and justifying them in light of CofE doctrine and canons has necessitated a development of a culture of legalistic casuistry that would humble the best of the legal profession. One only need look at John Hunwicke's Ordo and its justification of the use of unauthorised texts for a classic example. I think we should still commend the good but balanced with the desire to bring that good into its fulness in the Orthodox Church, so what we say is not taken as licence to see our affirmation of the status quo as acceptable, and the viewing of it as such by correspondents of mine over the years and months is partly the reason for this post.
cont'd below
On the point of the Pentateuch and its authorship, it is difficult. There are those Orthodox who accept modern biblical criticism where it is consonant with Orthodoxy and particularly where it comes from within Orthodox circles. However, there is also a strain that sees this as modernism and is cautious of questioning the attribution that Scripture gives to itself: so the Pentateuch was written by Moses and the JEDP theory is to be rejected, Isaiah's division into three parts is not to be accepted for it was all written by the prophet himself, and so forth. When I first started taking these matters seriously was when I was eposed to them at A-level theology, and what I was taught then was JEDP (though not criticisms of it, interestingly), 3 Isaiahs, Genesis 1-11 as mythical literature, and so forth. My exposure to the other view was something that had only come from certain Evangelical quarters, until recently, so it is sort of new to me too. If you have access to the Orthodox Study Bible (you can get it on Kindle or on the Kindle app for iPhone, complete with the patristic footnotes), you will find that the authors of the introductions to the books have actually trodden a very careful line in wording these things.
More later, when there is time. I will respond to everyone.
Mark, thank you for sharing your thoughts. Of course I welcome them. My post was a response to a series of sentiments, expressed privately and publicly over time, by a number of people in a particular situation: namely, Anglicans (predominantly Anglo-Catholics) who have been talking about journeying to Orthodoxy for a while but who seem to find all manner of reasons to never actually get there. So while I may not have answers to all of your points, it is good to read your thoughts from your perspective as somebody from a different tradition and with a different outlook.
The invitation from the Constantinople Patriarchate is interesting. I have been developing mixed feelings about these large-scale talks. On the one hand, comparing the origins of Methodism that you mention with what developed later (as a result of pietism, is that right?) does reveal that such large-scale influence does have lasting effect, and from that it seems that this new dialogue may be the start of something very good. On the other hand, I wonder how quickly these things come simply to reflect the positions of those involved in the talks and cease to be truly representative of the wider feeling of the traditions from which they come and, therefore, whether what they decide is ever known about or appreciated by the ordinary people in the pews. Very few people - Anglican and Orthodox alike - seem to know about the Anglican Orthodox Joint Doctgrinal Commissions or its statements. The only Anglicans I have ever spoken with who have taken an interest in them are those who already have an interest in Orthodoxy and knew through thbeir own study and experience what the similarities and differences are. Is it likely to be any different with Methodists?
Then, from the Orthodox perspective, the record of those local Orthodox churches that have entered into these dialogues shows a repeated compromise of Orthodoxy. One only need look at the Thyateira Confession of the local Greek Archdiocese and the Antiochian practice of not only giving communion to non-Orthodox but the encouragement of its people to receive elsewhere as examples of this. My own thoughts, re-affirmed by what is, I grant, a small amount of experience, is that what works quite well is grassroots effort. Local ventures among congregations of practical work together, mutual assistance, and so forth, can develop into a relationship of mutual help. People are able to become exposed to Orthodoxy that way, but with real people to ask questions of and a congregation to visit that they may have some dealing with already; and this actual human interaction may well make the world of difference. This happens without the wider shift away from Orthodox praxis that is often seen in larger-scale ecumenical dialogues. Thos are just some musings and don't represent a firmly-held position.
On the point of ecclesiology, I wonder whether Innocent Carlton's expression of elements of Tradition existing in varying degrees outside of Orthodox may have some relationship to the "degrees of communion" expression. I am fairly sure that he would distance himself from expressing it in terms that the differing degree of similarity indicate different degrees of actual mystical, spiritual communion but there does seem to be some similarity there.
I wonder, though, whether I may have misrepresented him in my response to Phil earlier. Carton's view was expressed within the context of an address on "Outside the Church there is no salvation", and he explained his point by saying that, when this separation happens, it is invariably the case that whatever remnant of Holy Tradition - that means to salvation - that remains in the severed body only lasts for so long, (he is actually more specific in the number of generations than I think anybody can reasonably predict as there are so many variables), gradually diminishing before it becomes so negligible that it is of no effect, (which perhaps goes some way towards addressing your question of the point of a Church if grace is freely to be found outside it).
On the point of the confusion of Orthodox jurisdictions and communion, there seems to be something of a distinction drawn (in practice, at least), between actual mystical communion on the one hand, and official relationships on the other. I'm not sure whether this is proper or that I like it but I'll try to say a little more about that later.
We won't know how that dialogue will play out until we start receiving its reports. In the normal way of things our dialogues run in five year cycles. However, I think it's worth looking at the history of our dialogue with the Catholic Church which is now 40 years old. I think one of its strengths is in its honesty - I feel that I can read the reports and recognise in them real Catholicism and real Methodism. I think it is probably true that some of the earlier ones are over optimistic in places. They're available on the Vatican website although I see that the latest ("Encountering Christ the Saviour: Church and Sacraments") has not yet been added. It would be my hope that a dialogue with Orthodox would be characterised by a similar honesty and reality. Ecumenical statements and agreements with lack honesty hinder relationships between Christians and Christian traditions, in my view, and I think there are various examples around of the problems so caused.
I think you're right that we could perhaps see a certain consonance between (your description of) Innocent Carlton's approach and some notion of degrees of communion. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if an idea of partial actual communion were problematic from an Orthodox perspective.
I see I missed your question on the later development of Methodism. Briefly, pietism is one element in the mix, as was the way in which actual separation from the Church of England happened and then later an adverse reaction to the effects of the Oxford Movement and the Ritualists in the Church of England (given a general horror of all things Rome in Methodism at that time).
Thank you for that, Mark. That makes sense. There have always been times when things have worked out as the result of reactions against something else but history shows that, usually, there has been something of a boomerang effect after some time. I hope that this is what we ultimately see in Methodism, which I think has much good to offer.
On the matter of ecclesiology that I mentioned above, and in some way addressing your point of the difficulty in discerning which Orthodox are in communion with which others, and how to recognise a unified communion of a church amidst all of that...
Something seems to have happened with the way that the word communion is used in Orthodox circles. There is a sense in which, as something official on paper, it is somehow divorced from the mystical reality. I'm not saying that this permeates all facets of Orthodox life, because it doesn't, but I am not the only one to have noticed and commented on it. I'm not sure that this use can stand up to scrutiny.
For instance, prior to 2007, many people (and I include myself because I yet didn't understand the history properly at the time and just adopted the terminology I heard) used to casually speak of ROCOR being out of communion with the rest of the Orthodox Church during the period of separation. It is true that Metropolitan Sergius had rescinded Patriarch Tikhon's decree onm which ROCOR was founded, later declaring all of our actions to be null, and that most of the other local churches eventually sided with this on paper. Yet the reality was quite different. Our clergy usually did not concelebrate with other Orthodox clergy but sometimes they did; the faithful could usually freely receive Communion and other Mysteries in one another's churches without question; clergy often transferred into and out of ROCOR in the same way as between any other two jurisdictions, with letters of release from the bishop, and with no question of corrective ordination (which would usually not be the case for a schismatic group); and apart from anything else, whatever relations were like with most of the Orthodox world, the Serbian church never sided against us and concelebrations with its clergy were frequent - the Serbian Patriarch himself used to concelebrate with ROCOR bishops. So how exactly was ROCOR "out of communion" other than in an administrative sense? Yet that is the term that was used. It seems a strange use of the word to me and I find it interesting that the document that was signed to bring about more normal relations with the Moscow Patriarchate, both in its title and its content, referred specifically of restoring canonical communion: it was qualified, likely because I don't think anybody could have reasonably put forward a convincing argument that actual, mystical communion had ever ceased to exist.
cont'd below
There is a similar sense of this in the case of some of the True/Genuine Orthodox churches, (whose representation in the UK is minimal - so there isn't much cause for confusion here). There are two strains of thought among these groups, going back to their early days: one is that those of us who either directly involve ourselves in ecumenical excess and compromise Orthodox faith or who are in communion with those who do are heretics and automatically outside the Church and without sacramental grace (a position that seems quite legitimate in light of Scripture, the fathers, the councils, and so forth); while there are others who either affirm that we are in the Church and have grace or who do not declare anything either way but believe that this must be decided at a council in the future, and that in the meanwhile, they have chosen to wall themselves off from us. This position is also quite legitimate when we look at how the Scriptures, the fathers, and the councils have been applied historically. I am given to understand that this was the position of the orthodox at the uprising of the Arian heresy and of the Nestorian heresy - particularly in the latter case, those who had walled themselves off in this way, placing themselves under an orthoox bishop who did not concelebrate with the Nestorians and who were consequently deposed by Nestorius, were later vindicated by the Council of Ephesus. The double-procession of the Holy Spirit was taught in the west for over 400 years before communion was finally severed. So there is certainly precedent for this. A number of groups from this latter, more moderate, category now seem to be forming relationships with each other. I could go to some of their churches and they would confess me as does my own priest, and welcome me to the chalice, (although my bishop may have a thing or two to say about that), and I know that some of their people receive in our churches.
Another example is the recent supposed severing of communion between the Orthodox Church of Jerusalem and that of Romania, stemming from the latter's intrusion into the canonical territory of the former. Yet, despite their not being "in communion" with each other, all of the marks of communion are still there. They are both in communion with all of the other Orthodox churches and I have not heard of anybody from one church being turned away from the chalice in another for not being within the communion of the Church. If Jerusalem viewed its "severing of communion" with Romania to be truly placing the Romanian Patriarchate outside the Church, this would simply not be the case.
The point of recounting all of this is to show that it seems that this administrative/official use of the word communion among us Orthodox (which I am not convinced is proper or traditional) may serve to give the impression that there is more sacramental disunity than there actually is, when the reality is that, despite internal disagreements and politics, there is much, much more mystical union and communion in Christ than may at first seem to be the case. I think that it is to our detriment and we should be cautious, (and perhaps at least a little ashamed).
Oh, incidentally, the podcast in which Innocent Carlton (who, unfortunately, uses his worldly name in these things) expressed his understanding may be heard here.
Now to Mother Julian, whom I have not forgotten.
I think you're right about the romantic attraction and the need to be wary of doing things for the wrong reasons. I think that actually applies to a number of journeys that we can take. As I look back to when I was a teenager, I know that I viewed the Church of England through romantic lenses. I was on the other side of the world, separated from home, living in a country where music simply wasn't taught and where many resources were not available for churches. There were hardly any organs that were not electric, few church choirs that sang chant or in harmony, little money for "nice" things such as new thuribles, crosses, and so forth. Yet, people used what was available to them and did the ceremonies as fully as they could. As a young teenager who loved the ceremony and solemnity, these things seemed more important to me than many other things at the time. I looked forward to returning to England because I knew that these things were much more readily available: thundering organs, money to buy these goodies (and regardless of how poor some parishes here may think they are, they are wealthy by comparison to many Caribbean parishes), new robes, and all of these things.
When I was 16 years old, I also had romantic ideas about Rome. Surely, that was the real deal. I could have all of my Catholic beliefs and practices without challenge, and there would be no "low church" parishioners to complain so the mass must be done with all of the things in the right place without having to persuade anyone, and the servers must know what they're doing, singing must be good, just like those nice masses I used to watch on EWTN as a child. Then there was the pope thing, which I didn't really understand but which I wouldn't have to try to work around anymore because I would be under him, which could only be good.
In both cases, my romantic ideas proved to be just that. Yes, resources for these things were more readily available in the Church of England, but so were Protestant ideas and customs. My childhood experience of an Anglican church that was uniformly Anglo-Catholic and where people would have used these resources for those "nice" things was not to be mirrored when I moved back to England at the age of 15. The Roman Catholic church in my head was not borne out in the reality with which I was confronted.
The point is that, in both of these cases, I only had my romantic ideas challenged by placing myself squarely in the midst of the reality. Every two years when I lived in St Kitts, I would spend the 8-week school holiday in England, but this was not enough for the reality to hit home. It was only when I moved back here permanently and took part in the life of my family's middle-of-the-road parish, and began to see the interplay of internal English Anglicanism from within that I came to see the baselessness of my romantic assumptions. Visiting the occasional Roman parish for a big event did not give me the true flavour of regular Catholic worship and life that I found when I spent a few months worshipping weekly in one of its parishes, getting to know its people and culture, and eventually receiving instruction from one of its deacons. That is when I knew the reality was so very different from what I had perceived.
I suppose what I'm saying is that, while I agree that romantic ideas form no real basis for conversion, I hope you will forgive me when I say bthat I'm afraid that it does sound very much like the sort of excuses I have heard that led to this blog post to begin with. The only way that the truth can be found is by placing oneself in the midst of the reality. Then the romantic ideas can be tried and tested, and ultimately confirmed as real, dismissd as nonsense, or taken and moulded into something unexpected and yet more beautiful. But it's no use standing on the hot, sandy beach and wondering whether the waters are as soothing as you think they are. That will not give you an answer. Dipping your big toe in a wave that comes ashore will not give you an answer. Jump in, swim around in it for a bit, let it soak into your skin for a while, and find out properly.
Michael,
Thank you for your thoughts.
I think we start from different premises. I have never had the slightest doubt that my baptism is valid, that in my current parish the parish priest is a real priest and that the Mass is valid with the Elements transformed into the Real Presence. These beliefs are shared by most of my fellow parishioners.
Today we sang a Mass setting by Palestrina. We have good liturgy, fine orthodox preaching, good music, a shared sense of community and fellowship in Christ. What's not to like?
There are issues to be resolved over authority in the CofE, and there may come a time when it is impossible to remain within the CofE. That time is not yet. For now, we are an authentic expression of the Western Church, and we can bring the Gospel to people as part of that Western culture. I do not have your difficulties with the Catholic Church, and if it became necessary to convert, at least within the Catholic Church I would remain within the Western tradition and culture. As well as being my heritage, it is the common heritage of many (most?) people in England, making it easier to evangelise than in the Eastern Orthodox tradition. I don't think that Orthodox, Catholic or CofE have a monopoly of truth, and I have some difficulties with aspects of all three. But these are all secondary issues, and all will work out in God's own time - ripeness is all.
So I think I'm already in the water, just from a different part of the beach.
Thank you, Mother Julian.
I really appreciate the sober way in which we can discuss these matters that I know have very personal implications, both in terms of salvation and social attitude and perception. I hope that I do not offend in my forthrightness. It stems, I think, from growing up in a West Indian family and culture and painful experience of the negative effects of sweeping honest assessment away for the sake of politeness. I just think that the latter serves to confuse and erode trust, though I fear I may sometimes go too far in the other direction. I never claimed to be a well-balanced person. :-)
I think that perhaps you, like Mark, are not among the intended audience here. It seems that you are confidently grounded where you are. I can respect that, although you know I must disagree with the basis of it. Still, there are those who are internally convinced that they need to be Orthodox but simpy find reasons not to take the plunge.
On the point of it being easier for Roman Catholicism to evangelise the west, I think I have the same reservations about that I do to the suggestion that the Western Rite is necessary in Orthodoxy because the Byzantine Rite is difficult for western people to adapt to. I know from experience (my own and that of the numerous western converts to Orthodoxy I encounter) that this is not true. I wholeheartedly support the restoration of the Orthodox Western Rite but not for that reason.
I also think that we need to draw a distinction between those whom we seek to bring into Orthodoxy from other Christian confessions and those whom we seek to freshly evangelise. A good number of my friends and acqauintances have nothing but the most fleeting of associations with any church - baptisms, weddings, and perhaps the odd funeral in church - you know the sort. Yet these are as much called by God as those who already have church associations, and our mission must be to them as much as anybody else, perhaps even more so. To them, going to a Roman Catholic high mass in Latin, an Anglican high mass in English but exceptionally well done, and an Orthodox Divine Liturgy in a combination of English and Slavonic - each with its grand ceremonial and bells and whistles - are all just about equally alien, and no less accessible for having originated in Rome, Ephesus, or Byzantium. The social elements that surround the services, whether they be Anglican polite conversation over tea and bisuits, Orthodox frivolity accompanying a meal with vodka, or Roman Catholic fleeing before the final Amen, will again be an unusual social experience for them.
For those coming from other Christian confessions, my views on the benefits of embracing something clearly different is expressed in my earlier post (and its comments) on Liturgical Archaeology.
Mother Julian part of the problem that Orthodoxy presents is by dint of our very name is: Right Worship (and of course that goes hand in hand with Right Practise/Belief.) We have no concept of the possibility of there being any Truth other that which was entrusted to the original and continuing Orthodox Church. If another ecclesial body reflects part of that original truth, all well and good but it can never be deemed as a legitimate alternative, not by us at least. We are not all on different parts of a beach this is heresy that the Councils put to bed many years ago. That does not mean that there should not exist charitable relations amonsgt those with whom we disagree. But let us never confuse that with believing that we are all singing of the same hymn sheet, we most assuredly are not. Lord have mercy! John Konstantin
Michael, thank you for the email you forwarded me concerning Bp Constantine. I couldn't thank you on FB as you seem to have left it :) JK
You're very welcome, brother Subdeacon.
I agree with you, of course, about this idea of different confessions being equally effectual paths to God. Metropolitan Vitaly of New York referred to this idea (generally branded ecumenism) as 'the most pernicious of heresies'. I know what he meant but, personally, I would have preferred the word insidious because, as he said, 'it has gathered all the heresies that exist or have existed and has called this union a Church'. It is presented to people as something good, and it seems to them wholesome and healing, particularly in the light of world events both past and present, and even personal relationships, in which we see the negative and ungodly result of religious fanaticism and extremism where love is absent.
Wanting to avoid that sort of evil (a motive good in itself), people go to the other extreme and embrace this false ecumenism, and they encourage it, out of genuine conviction, not realising just what its true effects are: presentation of false teachings as true, affirming as good separation from the Body of Christ, encouragement of indifference or inertia among those so separated because of the belief that this state of schism is ok. It is like a terminal illness that presents no obvious symptoms until it is too late. So "insidious" seems the right word, and it is very, very difficult to counter, for who can persuade somebody who is convinced of his good health that he needs to seek treatment? I think the best we can do is pray, and, where we are given an opportunity, try to speak the truth without apology but also with love and without pride, realising that many of us were once in much the same situation and that the people who believe this genuinely believe it to be true, and are not acting from any ill will.
Any condemnation should not be directed at those non-Orthodox who believe this but rather at those sources from within the Orthodox Church that encourage this. As was written by Blessed (Saint?) Philaret of New York in the first of his sorrowful epistles, 'The poison of heresy is not too dangerous when it is preached only from outside the Church. Many times more perilous is that poison which is gradually introduced into the organism in larger and larger doses by those who, in virtue of their position, should not be poisoners but spiritual physicians.'
I have a number of friends and acquaintances who love Christ but are not Orthodox, and I don't bang on at them about this all the time, (I don't think it would be very productive) and we can often speak of matters of faith, genuinely, without it being too much of an issue all the time. However, I like to think that, when the matter arises, I am nothing less than honest, just as I would expect them to be on points of my faith with which they struggle.
Beyond that, only prayer.
Better to be divided in truth, than united in error ~ John Konstantin
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